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Talk:Armando Dippet
Start date? how do we know he started in 1925? Me_Potter_Fan 02:34, 31 January 2008 (UTC) :Not sure. I'll check through some sources and get back to you. - [[User:Cavalier One|'Cavalier One']](''Wizarding Wireless Network'') 08:16, 31 January 2008 (UTC) Gryffindor? The infobox is Gryffindor. Do we have any proof that he is a Gryffindor? --Freakatone 01:12, 18 March 2008 (UTC) :No - changed to character infobox. Thanks for pointing it out. - [[User:Cavalier One|'Cavalier One']](''Wizarding Wireless Network'') 08:24, 18 March 2008 (UTC) Picture The picture on his page is bad any chance to change it? Profiteor (Owl Me) 09:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 03:48, 4 July 2009 (UTC) :Not likely... Unless, of course, we can get one picure of Alfred Burke playing him. -- [[User:Seth Cooper|'Seth Cooper']] ([[User talk:Seth Cooper|'Owl Post']]) 04:12, 4 July 2009 (UTC) ::What about using the Chocolate Frog Card in the infobox instead? The GBA video game icon doesn't enlarge very well. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 23:07, 6 July 2009 (UTC) :::You mean GBC =) Do you think it's good now? -- [[User:Seth Cooper|'Seth Cooper']] ([[User talk:Seth Cooper|'Owl Post']]) 16:09, 7 July 2009 (UTC) Dippet in CoS film While searching for Dippet in the Diary scene in CoS, I came across this wizard. The individual's facial expression strikes me as Burke's, as seen in this pic. Does it seem like Albert Burke to you? -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 00:10, November 28, 2009 (UTC) :Bumping. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 15:54, November 28, 2009 (UTC) ::It's definately him. Jayden Matthews 16:32, November 28, 2009 (UTC) Dippet Headmaster For how many years was Dippet headmaster? All I know is that he was drring 1943 and died in 1995. would he have been headmaster too the marauders? Or was Dumbledor the headmaster to them? :Dumbledore became Headmaster before the Marauders, b/c he had the Whomping Willow and Shrieking Shack built for Remus Lupin. --JKoch (Owl Me!) 05:57, March 9, 2010 (UTC) Hogwarts 1st Year Hogwarts year. With an October birthday wouldn't he have been sorted in 1649? You have to be 11 to go to hogwarts and he would not have turned 11 until October of 1648. Chaos9001 (talk) 17:21, November 20, 2012 (UTC) :That's quite right; I've changed it. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 18:22, November 20, 2012 (UTC) Who says Dippet is dead? Rowling have stated that the portraits on the Headmaster's Office is deceased individuals, true enough, but it isn't like Rowling haven't contradicted herself before. I don't see why his portrait in the office proves anything, seen as the portraits are there to advise the current Headmaster and Dippet's portrait would be just as valuable and useful when he retired. The article says that Armando Dippet died in 1992. Does anyone knows if his death have any relation with the Plot to open the Chamber of Secrets or with the second opening of the Chamber of Secrets? Is it possible that he has been killed because he could have some secret information about Tom Riddle or the first opening of the Chamber of Secrets? Andre G. Dias (talk) 16:00, February 14, 2014 (Brazil) Was Armando a Ravenclaw? Like professor Black, who is described as wearing clothing with the colours of Slytherin House, Armando wears the colours of Ravenclaw House, and since Rowling was in on making the movies, its possibly a hint? Year of birth I read somewhere that the year Armando was born was based on a annual figures painted his portrait. But as far as I know, when it's a annual figures on portraits without further given info, it usually refer to the year the portrait was painted, not the year the person shown in the painting was born. How do we know he was born in October, anyway? Which canon sources is there? User:Simen Johannes Fagerli :In the film, on the Evening Prophet dated 1 September, 1992, it stated that Dippet was due to take the ancient age flying test in October of that year for his 355th birthday (see this image). 1992-355=1637. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 01:29, July 25, 2013 (UTC) :Can someone copy the picture and ring out the place where it is stated please? Can't see it. User:Simen Johannes Fagerli --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 23:04, July 25, 2013 (UTC) I see you, but I don't see that on the picture. User:Simen Johannes Fagerli :If you look at the references on the page, you'll get your answers. -- Saxon 18:17, February 14, 2014 (UTC) Year of birth, Year of death There seems to be some disagreement as to when Armando Dippet died. 1992 or 1956. Which answer is correct? C.Syde65 (talk) 06:02, April 1, 2014 (UTC) :1956 (at least, that's what most people think). :I personally believe it happened in the 1970s or 1960s and that Dumbledore became Head in 1971, as he was still only Head of Transfiguration Department in 1956. :Then again, Voldemort did visit Dumbledore only ten years after he left Hogwarts (I don't have my copy of the book to verify that, but since Voldemort's rise only really began in the 1960s I'm not sure I entirely believe the 1956 model here) and Dumbledore was only recently made Head. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 10:47, April 1, 2014 (UTC) Too many contradictions We have no evidence to suggest that Armando Dippet is actually dead. You disagree? Well, there are too many contradictions, and here are my reason: He did not die in 1956, and he probably did not die in 1992. Why do I say this? Because there are simply too many contradictions. First and foremost, it was assumed Dippet passed away in 1992 because his portrait was in Dumbledore's office that year, Well, there is so many contradictions that I am unsure wether we can consider it canon anymore. You disagree? Well, you're wrong. In the film two we saw that a portrait of Newt Scamander at the office, so we know he was Headmaster once. What we also know is that he definitely was alive two years after the time the action in the film two took place. It was proved in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. This this contradicts J.K. Rowling's above-mentioned statement that all the portraits depict deceased individuals. This mean Dippet's name mentioned in book 2 is NOT non-canon. You might think; "That's just the movie, Rowling said this in an interview". Well, Rowling also had a say when it came to all the movies, and I don't think this is a mistake she would do. It's simply too big. Also, on Pottermore, which is the most recent source to canon information, it is confirmed that when a witch or wizard has been appointed Head of Hogwarts, a portrait being painted of them and placed in the Headmaster portrait's cupboard. Well, now that the idea that Dippet died in 1956 has been thoroughly refuted, let me move on to why I doubt that he died in 1992: If it is true that the portrait is hung solely after their death, meaning that the portrait was in the cupboard in thirty-six years after he retired. Why would it do that? Dumbledore would have had of his own portrait there and Dippet's if not placed on the wall, would have just been in the way and distract him in the training of his own portrait. For what purpose would the portrait only be in the cupboard for almost forty years in anticipation of the Dippet's death? If we assume that Armando Dippet's portrait would not be capable to advise Albus Dumbledore before of his living counterpart was gone forty years later? Yeah, right. And Dumbledore would not be able to educate Dippet's portrait on being Dippet, so why have the two portraits in the same place for so long? There is no reason. As we know the portraits of Lockhart exsisted while he was still alive, and we know Scamander's portrait hang at the Office while the old man still is alive, we can do nothing but to conclude that when Armando became Headmaster, a portrait was painted of him, placed in the cupboard and Armando regularly visited it to teach it to be like him, and when he left office, his portrait were moved from the cupboard to join the rest of the portraits so it could advise his successor Dumbledore. Meaning that a Headmaster's portrait is placed on the wall IMMEDIATELY after they retire. It didn't happen to Umbridge and Snape? Umbridge was not an actual Headmistress appointed by the Governors, it was decided by the Ministry, meaning she was never the Head, otherwise the Headmaster's office would not shut her out. Snape did not leave office in the sense Armando must have. He abandoned his post when he was chased out, he did not retire. Also, then Headmistress McGonagall did not know of his loyalty, meaning she did not want his portrait on the wall, and that seem kind of Armando Dippet: Master or Moron? was written before 1997, so that's the proof? Well, not necessarily. While Albus Dumbledore lived, he was widely known as the greatest wizard in modern times. He was a famous alchemist, he served as the Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot, held a seat within the International Confederation of Wizards, held the Order of Merlin, First Class, for Grand Sorcery, was credited with discovering the twelve uses of dragon's blood, a famous supporter of Muggle rights and fierce enemy of both Gellert Grindelwald, having already ended an entire war all by himself, and was believed to be the only thing standing between Voldemort and victory in the Second Wizarding War. He was too famous, too popular and had to many supporters. It would in every imaginable aspect be impractical of Skeeter to write lies about him while he was alive. The lies needed to be served after his demise, when his fans was laying down, murning rather than standing up for his good name and reputation. Only then could it achive success. Snape? Well, he was believed to be with the Death Eaters. In a DE controled society, how smart is it to write crap about them? Not very. When Snape died, he would be seen as nothing than another famous name in History of Magic with a tragic upbringing people would pay to read about. Especially if she made it more 'enjoyable reading' by bending the truth. Armando Dippet on the other hand, was not. While he might have been a respected Headmaster once, and while he might have had a rich life, which seems reasonable, his date of birth pre-dating even the Statue of Secrecy, he had by 1992 become ancient, feeble and long since passed his magical peak. He had long since settled and benefited nearly forty years of retirement and was not particularly highly regarded, not even his own neighbors. If he objected to the book, who would take him seriously? And besides, maybe he simply did not care. An old man, experienced in the ways of the world would probably have confidence enough to think that "those who know me, know me, so why worry about what the fans of Rita Skeeter think?" Also, while he appeared in the Prophet, he was mentioned to having crashed, but he a) was not mentioned as lethally injured and b) was summoned to take the Ancient Flying Test, meaning that he was, while very old, still going with relatively good health.In any case, even if someone was to try to counter my arguments, be it out of disagreement, spite or whatever serves them as motivator, it still stands to reason there is waaaaaaaaaaaay to much confusion and waaaaaaaaaaaay to many contradictions. Therefore, Armando's supposed death should be left out of the article after Rowling confirm it directly. User:Simen Johannes Fagerli Don't remove things before the discussion is complete; now, one of us is going to have to go back through the article and re-add everything back in! --HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 21:51, April 1, 2014 (UTC) I pose this reply specifically in regards to Seth's recent edit, though anyone is welcome to answer. Can you prove that only headmasters who died in office receive portraits? It's certainly canon that a headmaster needs to have died before their portrait is hung, but as far as I know nothing says they can't have retired first. -- 1337star (Drop me a line!) 22:10, April 1, 2014 (UTC) Exact quote from J.K. Rowling's interview: ''All the paintings we have seen at Hogwarts are of dead people. They seem to be living through their portraits. How is this so? If there was a painting of Harry’s parents, would he be able to obtain advice from them? That is a very good question. They are all of dead people; they are not as fully realised as ghosts, as you have probably noticed. The place where you see them really talk is in Dumbledore’s office, primarily; the idea is that the previous headmasters and headmistresses leave behind a faint imprint of themselves. They leave their aura, almost, in the office and they can give some counsel to the present occupant, but it is not like being a ghost. They repeat catchphrases, almost. The portrait of Sirius’ mother is not a very 3D personality; she is not very fully realised. She repeats catchphrases that she had when she was alive. If Harry had a portrait of his parents it would not help him a great deal. If he could meet them as ghosts, that would be a much more meaningful interaction, but as Nick explained at the end of Phoenix—I am straying into dangerous territory, but I think you probably know what he explained—there are some people who would not come back as ghosts because they are unafraid, or less afraid, of death. --HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 22:17, April 1, 2014 (UTC) :According to Rowling herself, at the Scholastic Open Book Tour, NYC October 19, 2007 (transcription of the excerpt in question can be read here), "So all the portraits you see in the headmaster's study are all headmasters and mistresses who died, it's like British royals. You only get good press if you die in office. Abdication is not acceptable ...". Her interview at the Edinburgh Book Festival (quoted by HarryPotterRules1 above) strongly implies the same. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| '''Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 22:47, April 1, 2014 (UTC) ::That being said, I don't think it's set in stone that Dippet died in 1956 — Order of the Phoenix tells us McGonagall went to work at Hogwarts in December 1956, and Pottermore says Dumbledore was still Head of Transfiguration by then. ::The only thing we know is that Voldemort applied for a job shortly after Dumbledore became Headmaster («''"I heard that you had become headmaster,” he said, and his voice was slightly higher and colder than it had been. “A worthy choice.” “I am glad you approve,” said Dumbledore, smiling.», HBP chapter 20), and that that meeting took place ten years after Riddle visited Hepzibah Smith as part of his work at Borgin and Burkes («"Ten years separates Hokey's memory and this one, ten years during which we can only guess at what Lord Voldemort was doing…''"», HBP chapter 20). Since it's said in that same chapter that he got that job soon after he left Hogwarts (which we know he did in 1945, based on his birthdate), then we can conclude Dumbledore succeeded Dippet around 10 years later. ::I'd say listing Dippet's death as "c. 1957" would be less incorrect (since Dumbledore wasn't headmaster yet in December 1956, per Pottermore). -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 23:11, April 1, 2014 (UTC) Would it be easier to put that Dippet died "between 1956 and 1966" (as Riddle turns up 10 years later)? --HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 23:13, April 1, 2014 (UTC) Yes, Rowling said all of them were dead, but she later disproved/contradicted her own statement. You can say how many times you want that Rowling supposedly confirmed it, but it's just like she did when she said Grindelwald died. There's been to many contradictions back and forth ever since regarding portraits in general. Dippet was mentioned in 1992 in a newspaper in a movie we KNOW Rowling to be involved in, and therefore, his appearence is canon. As for his death, if you had actually read what I wrote instead to skim it and just repeat what was there before, without arguing for it, would you though that statement ten years ago did not measure up. ''I pose this reply specifically in regards to Seth's recent edit, though anyone is welcome to answer. Can you prove that only headmasters who died in office receive portraits? It's certainly canon that a headmaster needs to have died before their portrait is hung, but as far as I know nothing says they can't have retired first. -- 1337star (Drop me a line!) 22:10, April 1, 2014 (UTC) ''Exact quote from J.K. Rowling's interview: All the paintings we have seen at Hogwarts are of dead people. They seem to be living through their portraits. How is this so? If there was a painting of Harry’s parents, would he be able to obtain advice from them? Read my post, then it will probably soon dawn on you that she already has disproved herself already. She already contradicted herself through both Dippet - and Scamander. Please, don't mess up the time-line because of this statement. There's simply to much back and forth. User:Simen Johannes Fagerli :You have forgotten something. On this wiki Rowling's word is law. That means information from films do not count when the book or Pottermore or interviews from Rowling say another thing. And Rowling was involved in the films, yes, but not so strong that she could say: You must do this that way. She gave advice but the films were not made by her. [[User:Harry granger| Harry granger ]][[User talk:Harry granger| ' Talk ']] 10:15, April 2, 2014 (UTC) Exactly - J.K. Rowling confirmed herself that he died in office (only Headmasters who did get a portrait, so Dippet died as Headmaster) and her word comes above the film; he word is the '''''highest form of canon ever. Thus, no matter what the film says, Dippet died at some point in 1956, probably around December, given McGonagall's appointment as Transfiguration teacher to succeed Dumbledore. --HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 12:09, April 2, 2014 (UTC) And you forget that Rowling oversaw the Harry Potter movies, meaning her words was influencing how their progress and supplied the makers with details. So what you then have - is Rowling's word against Rowling's word, and we are just as far. User:Simen Johannes Fagerli :Listen, you ignorant little - Rowling herself confirmed that she does not oversee everything, it's even said in the interview with Daniel Radcliffe; she was there at the beginning, then when she saw they were getting on alright, went back to the books - she has no influence over props - except for what they look like - and definitely not what is written on them unless she says so in the books. :Her word is law above films; she was 1956, so it's 1956. :If you protest now, then you are doing so just for the sake of getting your ego inflated. You are wrong; it is 1956. --HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 12:43, April 2, 2014 (UTC) ::Close to name-calling, rude, baseless accusation on my personality without knowing me, an all in all impolite and immaturely answer. If I protest, it is because I disagree with your interpretation of circumstances. Neither more nor less. User:Simen Johannes Fagerli. :::I would request calm and remind everyone to observe HPW:NPA. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 14:03, April 2, 2014 (UTC) :::Wiser words haven't been said as of yet in this discussion. Tumb up, Seth. :-) :::Can someone show me the link to where Rowling said only Headmasters who died in service is granted a portrait? User:Simen Johannes Fagerli ::::"so all the portraits you see in the headmaster's study are all headmasters and mistresses who died, it's like British royals. You only get good press if you die in office. Abdication is not acceptable..." -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 15:30, April 2, 2014 (UTC) ::::We still have the issue with Scamander being a former Headmaster and still has a portrait before he passed away. Could we assume that Dippet, if we are to think he was Scamander's immediate successor, insisted that his portrait would end up on the wall? Perhaps Dippet, like Dumbledore, found his work with magizoology admirable and felt it would boost Hogwart's reputation if 'a part of' the world reowned author stayed behind? ::::(Rowling also said she was joking, but I'm not sure what she was joking about).User:Simen Johannes Fagerli :::::Only people who've died in office get portraits on the walls, that much is clear. Since Scamander was alive at least to 1994, his portrait being on the wall is non-canon. It doesn't happen. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 11:22, April 3, 2014 (UTC) :::::So he never was Headmaster? Okay, I think we are making waaaaaaaaaaaaay to many changes based on the words Rowling said ten years ago. This one, confusing, nosensical sentence, that contradict so many things we know from canon as a whole. (The sum of all canon facts that do not go against the book). :::::Do anyone know how to come in contact with Rowling? To ask her directly? User:Simen Johannes Fagerli Actually, with Scamander we can link it down to one thing - the founders, Helga, Godric, Rowena and Salazar - all had their portraits in the headmasters office too, though they were never headmasters or headmistresses, merely "professors". We also have this: In the Harry Potter films, a portrait of Scamander is present in the Headmaster's office, thus implying that he was a past Headmaster of Hogwarts and that he was dead by 1992, as the portrait first appears in Chamber of Secrets. However, Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them establishes that Scamander was still alive by 1994, thus making this non-canon. So, basically, yes, Scamander was never Headmaster of Hogwarts. The picture may have been put there for Dumbledore's use; he uses Phineas Nigellus's to communicate, so perhaps he does the same here, for all we know. --HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 20:29, April 3, 2014 (UTC) :Scamander wasn't a Headmaster; that bit has been removed from his article a while back, precisely because that would contradict what Rowling had said. :The films say Scamander was Head (and Rowling's imput in the films was minimal, and had mostly to do with reviewing the script, not the props), Rowling says he couldn't have been. Per the canon policy, Rowling's word trumps what the movies say on the matter. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 21:29, April 3, 2014 (UTC) Yes, basically - Scamander never became Headmaster; by the way, Seth, can you have a look at what I posted on your talk page? --HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 00:17, April 4, 2014 (UTC)